It depends on the contract he signed.

--
Steve

Go and see a solicitor (Lawyer).

--
Dylan Parry
http://webpageworkshop.co.uk -- FREE Web tutorials and references

Even better, and to save a bit of cash, just suggest to the company that
created the website that you're going to take legal advice/action if they
don't allow you access. Only escallate things further if they still don't
budge.

--
Steve

I'm sorry, I meant to say... I dont think there is a contract! There was an
order but no explicit contract - therefore I assume default laws apply...

Also, the code on the web has no reference to the hosting company, nor is
there an explicit copyright statement - not sure if this matters legally.

Might wanna download all the files that are currently online before
you do that. (of course that is only html output and pics and stuff,
but still better than nothing)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vo. O resto imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: LuLu - The Man Who Sold The World

That's what I've advised him...

I've pilfered a copy of the site as a backup, and I know that we can contest
the ownership of the domain name with ICANN - which is the important bit.
The images on the sight are also copyrighted, and these pre-date the
website.

It's not the greatest/most complex site, which in this case is a blessing!

www.images-photo.co.uk

As the domain is register to record he doesnt have much chance of
getting the domain name from them .

Even though he may have some letter heads and business cards - it would
probably be a lot cheaper and quicker to get them printed again rather
than spend time messing around with lawyers and red tape .

Pull the plug and cut the losses by the sound of it .

www.imagesphoto.co.uk is a available to register and the whole thing
could be done and dusted in less than a week .

Suggest you tell him to signup for a free 123reg account and register it
himself .


--
www.pickoftheweek.co.uk
(tv show and film pick of the week)

What's wrong with that company, don't they want to earn any money? Or
his money no good for them? Or do they think he have money to pay
them, has he paid them for what they all ready done?

I'm just asking because the whole thing sounds very strange to me :)

--
/Arne

Top posters will be ignored. Quote the part you
are replying to, no more and no less! And don't
quote signatures, thank you.

They are paid up until some point in the future, so there shouldnt be any
bad blood betwen them.

I'd like to speak to the company myself, but at this stage I'm only offering
informal advice. Wouldn't be unheard of for a client to misunderstand the
situation...!

It does doesn't it...

I thought you knew everything?

Such as, the golden rule is ask a lawyer, not a bunch of strangers on
Usenet.

And in the UK a verbal agreement is a contract.

Matt

--
If your encyclopaedia doesn't list "widget glass", you're reading the wrong encyclopaedia.
The Probert Encyclopaedia. Its not the same.
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com

if only :)

--
William Tasso

This whole area is still being ironed out. But realize, that the "other
side" of the argument is that its files on MY computer. Im not sure how
large a business this is but I have a server in my house. I might create
someone a web page and host it but not want to give them access to my
server. It is a perfectly reasonable arrangment. Also I might not want some
changes to be made on it because its offensive or it adds something that
drives up the CPU load or bandwidth use. Its "your stuff" on my server.

The alternative is, move. Buy an account somewhere else, copy the web page,
upload it to there. If any part of the page cannot be copied from a browser
than it probably involves some coding and you would have a problem with
claiming ownership on that anyway.

Gandalf Parker

How do you prove in court there was such a verbal agreement ? Unless you
have a tape recording you are out of luck, which is why written
contracts exist.
--

Alfred Molon

http://www.molon.de/Galleries.htm - Photos from China, Myanmar, Brunei,
Malaysia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Nepal, Egypt, Germany, Austria,
Prague, Budapest, Singapore and Portugal

A very good reason to OWN your domain and HAVE IT WITH SOMEONE BESIDES
your site provider.

Those of you that still have your domains with your server providers,
I hope you've read enough of these type messages in the past month to
get off your duff and get the domains moved to someone else.

Most likely, in this case, the website provider owns the domain.

Tom J
Tom J

FYI it's Nominet for uk ccTLD domains:
http://www.nominet.org.uk/DisputeResolution/AboutTheDrs/

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
- Stuart Millington ALL HTML e-mail rejected -
- mailto:[Email Removed] http://w3.z-add.co.uk/ -

If he can't change the content, and doesn't own the domain name, in what
sense did they create the site 'for him' rather than 'with his content
on it'?

This does indeed appear to be the case (which does seem a shade
unethical), and it's just using framed forwarding to a sub-directory of
their own site:
<http://www.re-chord.co.uk/images-photo>

It's all very strange, though.

Sideways scroll even at 1024 x 768 <shudder>. I'd agree -- time to move,
and maybe get someone who actually knows what they are doing (rather
than having a passing familiarity with DW MX & Fireworks) to revamp the
design.

Perhaps rather than getting all confrontational, since they don't appear
to be in the web design/hosting business (it's not offered on their own
site), he could try just getting them to agree to its being moved
elsewhere amicably (and at the same time getting the domain ownership
transferred).
--
Pete Gray

Say No to ID Cards <http://www.no2id.net>
<http://www.redbadge.co.uk/no2idcards/>

The Registrant's address is listed as being on Trinity Street, and Re-Chord
is named as the registrant. Is that your friend, or the service he used?

I don't know about the UK, but if something like that had happened to me, I
would take them to small claims and sue for the cost of building a new site
and registering a new domain, plus estimated lost business (from losing the
domain name) and a nice chunk of punitive damages, too.

Best bet, as everyone's suggested, see a lawyer. It's amazing what a letter
from an attorney can do sometimes...

--
Tony Garcia
Web Right! Development

Not so easy, but in civil cases it's not about proof, it's about
assesing both sides. Plus, it would require a person to lie in court if
they claimed a verbal agreement did not exist when in fact it did.

Matt is correct of course, a verbal agreement is still a contract.

--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com

Not even a verbal agreement is needed in many cases, particularly when
purchasing products (services are more of a grey area). You give them
the money on the understanding that the product is fit for the use it is
designed for. If it isn't, you have the right to a refund or
replacement, even though there was no written contract, and even if you
never exchanged a single word (therefore no verbal contract). It's
called an implied contract (well, it is here at least).

None of the above really applies to the OP of course, but this is Usenet
- what do you expect? :-)

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au

The other thing with this - if its using photos owned by the OPs
friend, then this host is surely breaking copyright by using that
material?




--
www.senaction.com

I think a case could be made that the DOMAIN NAME is a product, and failure
to permit the purchaser access to the domain name he purchased would
constitute theft.

--
Tony Garcia
Web Right! Development

Obviously they don't own the content (the images).
--

Alfred Molon

http://www.molon.de/Galleries.htm - Photos from China, Myanmar, Brunei,
Malaysia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Nepal, Egypt, Germany, Austria,
Prague, Budapest, Singapore and Portugal

Doesn't mean it's anymore enforceable, but it's a contract
none-the-less.

Matt

--
If your encyclopaedia doesn't list "widget glass", you're reading the wrong encyclopaedia.
The Probert Encyclopaedia. Its not the same.
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com

Yes that's true. That's what happens when you buy groceries etc. The
tin of beans on the shelf, with a price ticket, is the offer. Picking
it up and paying at the checkout, is accepting that offer.

--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com

They are essentially holding it for ransom. If I were the legal owner of
the domain name, I'd download the entire site and host it somewhere
else. If ownership of the domain is not clear, I'd get control of that
first and take their name off of it.
--
Red

The victim *could* file an ICANN complaint.

--
JustThe.net - Steve Sobol / [Email Removed] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Coming to you from Southern California's High Desert, where the
temperatures are as high as the gas prices! / 888.480.4NET (4638)

"Life's like an hourglass glued to the table" --Anna Nalick, "Breathe"

If necessary to get control of a domain he paid for.
--
Red

That's not the only way. If you can prove intellectual rights, that'd also
work. That usually means "I have a trademark, now give me my domain name"
but it could (IMHO) also mean "I'm using this name in commerce, now give me
my domain name."

--
JustThe.net - Steve Sobol / [Email Removed] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Coming to you from Southern California's High Desert, where the
temperatures are as high as the gas prices! / 888.480.4NET (4638)

"Life's like an hourglass glued to the table" --Anna Nalick, "Breathe"

Good. Then the default rule of a "work for hire" will apply (google this
ng). It's his site. Legal big stick is easily applicable, but not
entirely cheap.

Talk to the hosting company and check the domain registrations too.
Hopefully he didn't get these through the same developer too, but he
probably did. His best option is simply to snatch both away from the
developer by bypassing them and talking to both hosts (site and name
reg). If its a limited company and the names are related, then this can
be pretty easy. If it's more vague, then it gets messy.

The main problem is "library" code, such as that running a catalogue or
similar. This isn't so obviously developed _for_ a client, and so the
legal defaults favour the developer more than the client. That's likely
to involve compromise, or replacement.

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing.


Anyone know of sensible draft contracts for web development work ?

I think it was Sam Goldwyn who once said "a verbal agreement isn't worth
the paper it's written on".

--
John Ray, London UK.

Some years ago, a dozen or so of us from uk.net.web.authoring got
together and commissioned a set of contracts from a specialist solicitor
who was prepared to deal with a group rather than an individual. I used
them two or three times, but then discovered that, since most of my
business comes via referrals from satisfied customers, contracts really
aren't necessary since both parties have a reputation to lose if things
go wrong.

From time to time, of course, a client arrives via Google with no
networking involved. In a couple of cases, things just died due to lack
of client enthusiasm, and it took pressure to get paid for the work done
up to that point - but, in each case, a recorded delivery letter
mentioning how we would regret having to take legal proceedings produced
cheques very promptly.
--
Molly Mockford
Pagination Associates
http://www.pagination.co.uk
My Reply-To address *is* valid, although it may not remain so for ever.

Try asking on uk.legal, cross-posing back to here, but writing it in a
format that someone with a legal, and not a computer background will
understand.

I have found uk.legal quite useful at times. Not everyone on there are
legally qualified solicitors, but many are, or are training to be.

My thoughts (for what little they are worth) is that anything he paid
them to write, would probably be his. But perhaps things that are
included on the site, such as bits of code they use on multiple web
sites, may not be.

I just posted a small program on this newsgorup that computes the
properties of a dipole antenna. If someone asked me to write such a
program, those 27 lines I wrote for them might well belong to them.

But that 27 line program calls a C function 'self()' which I wrote long
before someone wanted 'dipole'. I don't see why they should get access
to the library 'self' or any of the routines that calls.

(In this case, the whole program is GPL'ed,

http://www.g8wrb.org/yagi/index.html

but you get what I am driving at).

It can be.

I once had an argument when a verbal agreement was given, which was
later broken. The person who made that agreement did not deny he did,
but just choose to ignore the fact.

When I persued the matter, the companies solicitors settled in my favor.

Had he denied making that verbal agreement it might have been a
different matter, since I had no proof.