Comparing 2Pac with Martin luther King now? That's funny.

Ofcourse I am interpreting what you are trying to say. We are communicating,
are we not? Interpretation occurs in all communication, especially
communication that is not clear or to the point.

I am also not quoting parts of your message because I am not replying to them.
Why quote something that I am not going to reply to?

I wouldn't worry about it so much. There will always be people that are
prejudice or racist and they will use whatever words that suits the occasion.


[Email Removed]

AGREED!!!!!!! (also 20)

-Erika

Very nice work. One quibble is the flashing "Make a Donation" icon. A
little too in your face and distracts from the message of her good
works. I also agree with cpg that the rollovers are too harsh in
comparison with the balance of the work.

Drew

Some of the things they said are similar. Also they are both killed. (Did
not die of old age, that is.) I might add Malcolm X as well. They all
talked about similar stuff and all got killed. That's not funny at all,
IMO.

Well if you don't give a damn, I do. Besides, dangerous is the one that
utters not a word and whose hatred burns violently within.

--
Branko

There are lots of instances where acts do not lead to pregnancy. You'll
need something more concrete than this.

--
Farlo
Urban Fey Dragon
Imperial States of America

Dear child molester supporter, consider the following excerpt from an
overcomer who's sister was a victim, but did not get pregnant:

Dear Lynn,
I personally want to thank you for the RAD class. It was truly therapy for
me and I am sure that my mom would feel the same way. My sister was attacked
and raped when she was a preteen. We still do not know who the perpetrator
was. It was really hard to face the fact and live in my sister's shoes for a
while--- and come out victorious in a situation where she was not, costing
her much of her life. Unfortunately, now over 10 years later, she struggles
with feeling like a victim in all facets of her life. I wish both her and I
would have taken this class years ago.


Maybe YOU like molesting children and casusing severe emotional trauma,
often for a LIFETIME! Child molesting, whether legal or not, is ALWAYS
destructive in one way or another. It doesn't matter that they miss one
single problem. There are hundreds of emotional and relational problems
directly caused by child molesting. And YOU are part of the problem because
you choose to support child molesting.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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You are a total idiot! Many child molesters say the same thing! You are a
perfect candidate for becomming a molester. YOU may not have considered it
abuseive, but it WOULD have caused problems.

If we really examine your life there WILL be evidence of emotional and
relational problems in your life, whether you enjoyed it or not! People
enjoy smoking, but it always adversely affects their health and those around
them. You opinion means absolutely NOTHING when it endorses child molesting
or any other destructive act. I DARE you to find a case of child/adult
that did NOT result in social and psuchological problems. Nobody has yet to
find such a case. You would be the first!

An interesting bit of information is that only about 2% of child molesters
are ever "cured." They feel exactly like you do, that it is not their fault
and that the child wanted to have . It is up to responsible adults to
hinder this unhealthy behavior and curiosity.

Mike Dobony
Certified R.A.D. and radKIDS instructor, preventing people like you from
harming women and children.


---
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This is actually quite common in some Hispanic nations. While not openly
accetpable, it is often hushed up.

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---
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---
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I think this is a totally normal fantasy. The thing is that fantasies don't
always play out as you might imagine in your head. If it had happened (and
obviously I can't say that it didn't, I am only assuming it didnt) you may feel
differently about it. I know that is why I feel differently about it.. and had
I not been in a situation like that, my feelings on the subjest may be closer
to yours.

-Erika

Thats a very legitimate point, Fred. I hadn't even considered it.

-Erika

Problem is it will always be more expensive than an equivalent PC when one
comes around, if it doesn't exist already. Macs are nice but their prices do
more to hurt them than anything else. The have always been over that price
threshold where only a niche market gets served.



[Email Removed]

Not true. Not all injury is physical and with people in unequal power
situations certainly can lead to emotional injury. between an adult and
child certainly can and often does lead to emotional injury. That is
empirical.

Fred Doyle
www.leafpublishing.com


"FOR7b" <[Email Removed]> wrote in message
news:[Email Removed]...

So if some gang member low life rapper achieves some fame and repeats words
that were already spoken by a peaceful Martin Luther King he then deserves to
be compared to such a man? Nonsense.

Who says I don't "give a damn?" At some point there are things in life that
sometimes get much worse the more you try and fight it. My telling you not to
"worry about it so much" does not necessarily translate into inaction. In an
odd way I would say your comments and attitude do more to spread racism than my
telling anyone not to "worry about it so much." Unlike you I don't look at
black or white people in any unique way. There are great people in this world
and then there are low lives and they come in many different shades of color.
It is really kind of strange that you single out blacks as a group of people
that you envy and then go on to point out why with stereotypical
characteristics. You sound like a Serbian Archie Bunker.







[Email Removed]

Personally, I really think it is time to wrap this up. I'm sure most of the
group is totally ignoring this thread by now. The things you point out to
Branko have been pointed out to him again and again and he just isn't
capable of seeing it. True enough about the Archie Bunker anaolgy. He used
much of the same reasoning and logic Branko has used, and like Branko,
Archie could never see his own racism. Have fun if you want to continue with
Branko, but like arguing with Archie, it ain't going nowhere.

Fred Doyle

--
I miss Rage Against The Machine.


"lilmissgiggles" <[Email Removed]> wrote in message
news:FHsKa.22326$[Email Removed]...

Well, I would have to recheck his lyrics to give a complete answer this
one.

Tho, I think he had great lines about reuniting of the black people, who
are fighting among themselves instead of fighting the common enemy (racism)
.... things like that. He was a gang banger, that's true. He was far from
being peaceful, that's also true. Hence the 'take up guns' kinda approach.
But I can't entirely agree that he was merely a low-life copycat. It would
be more like "Hate that Gave Birth to Hate." KKK took up guns, why souldn't
the blacks? I think that's 2Pac's idea.

If you get so pissed at what you saw as my opinion on black people, how do
you expect an idealist gang banger to 'stay cool'? It is his goddamn
business, after all.

Goals of M. L. King and 2Pac were the same -- they only had very different
methods of achieving them. 2Pac saw force as the only way, King saw
diplomacy as the prefered weapon. And they both failed.

BTW, given 2Pac's popularity and the poor fate of Malcolm X, I wouldn't
entirely dismiss the posibility that CIA conspired with one of the gangs to
get rid of 2Pac: the same way FBI got rid of Malcolm X using the members of
the Nation of Islam.

Let's see the definition of the word 'discrimination' in Webster's
dictionary (hey, I'm not patronizing: just read on):

Under 2: "the quality or power of finely distinguishing"

Looking at the definition of 'generalization' we see:

Under 3: "the act or process whereby a response is made to a stimulus
similar to but not identical with a reference stimulus"

There's an old stereotype about Japanese (I am one):

"Japanese are hard-working people."

This can be classified as discrimination based on a generalized opinion
about a nation (namely Japanese). In other words, by stating that "Japanese
are hard-working," we distinguish them from other nation based on a number
of Japanese, who are characterized as hard-working. The 'number' in
question must be fairly large in order to form a stereotype: It has to be
able to be expressed in a 'most of' or 'mostly' form -- to the point of
becoming 'almost all of.'

However, there is something in this example very important for 'racism'
debate: discrimination. You, E.T, were probably saying that I promote
racism by making generalized discriminations, right?

First of all, let me assure you that I do not apply generelized ideas in
individual cases. They only serve as a reference point. The accuracy of the
generalized opinions are not high for sure, but I consider them very
reliable since they are mostly proven through time they took to form.

Secondly, I don't agree that discrimination itself is causing racism. In
order to become a full-scale racist you need to believe that the race is
the *only* or "*primary* determinant of human traits and capacities and
that such traits produce *inherent superiority* of a particular race."
(Webster, with my emphasis.) So we can conclude that in order to be a
racist, you need to, first of all discriminate between generalized traits
of races (which is totally natural in all animals, including humans), and
then conclude that some races are superior to others. I might add that
racists also try to exterminate and/or exploit the inferior races.

At this point, I would like to remind you, E.T, about the ethnic cleansing
remark you made. I can't dig it up right now, but it sounded like: "You
Serbs should be bombed. You do ethnic-cleansing." You did not choose
'color' as basis of the argument, but you did choose a 'nation.' IMO, the
exactly same mechanics apply in this case, as well.

In order to prevent racism, one might take at least two courses of action:

1. Stop discriminating and generalizing.

or

2. Oppose the idea of superiority of any race. (Mind you, race is a
fictional idea: it doesn't apply only the skin colour, but to any
particular trait you like).

I chose 2. because I believe that discriminating and generalizing are, *if*
not necessary, then just unavoidable. All animals, mind you, have the
capacity to discriminate and generalize (the latter being the among the
first things they learn). Also, the two processes can point out some
cultural differences that are otherwise viped out. And at last, but not the
least, discrimination and generalization can help us understand different
groups of people as groups. This doesn't rule out individuals, but quite on
the contrary, it helps us see how individuals of a particular group differ
(or relate).

Okay, I definitely agree that I'm making a grater fuss about this than
sensible. It's a curse. Big mouth. Mostly to my disadvantage, admittedly.
So, as Freddy pointed out: time to wrap it up. Please, I would honestly
appreciate the closing argument by For7b. Fred's already written one. So
did I.

--
Branko

Spaz.

--
Farlo
Urban Fey Dragon
Imperial States of America

Well, yes, that's true. The consequences are much more far reaching than
"preganancy". There is a lot of potential emotional damage involved.

--
Farlo
Urban Fey Dragon
Imperial States of America

Pfft.

--
Farlo
Urban Fey Dragon
Imperial States of America

Did I call it or what? Now please leave.

--
Farlo
Urban Fey Dragon
Imperial States of America

Mike, I don't buy it.

Too many molesters in the same family...

I think you're using the word "molester" in the wrong way just to try to
make a point or having the upper hand in a conversation for the sake of it.

Try again. Then *maybe* somebody will be able to believe you...

Pepe
Milano, Italy

Nice work, especially like the "Greed" section :)

Matt
--
I miss Rage Against The Machine.


"Matti Vuori" <[Email Removed]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

You posted these links on 2 Jun 2003 in this ng already.

48073.

Lenny Terenzi
interactive media designer
http://www.lennyterenzi.com
web | print | multimedia | corporate identity | consulting