On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:00:21 -0400, "Fred Doyle"
<[Email Removed]> wrote:
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People obviously have some problem understanding what the terms "free speech" and "censorship" really mean, but so what. Some think that whatever they say ok, because they have "free speech" everyone will support their right to say it. It sounds like a few may be getting a direct lesson in what free speech really means and what its real limits are. I loved this line from above. "I use the system as I wish, and if I choose to call it Free Speech, then that is what it is." In other words, "If I call my a$$ my elbow, then it is my elbow, and even if everyone else says I don't know my a$$ from my elbow, I must because I say so." |
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Onideus Mad Hatter wrote: On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:09:20 -0700, Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson wrote: I nominate Aratzio for Kook Groupie Kook Award! For being the best Uni Groupie around. I second. Should I feel honored? :-) Uni - setting new standards for NSPs. |
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In article <BCEDF409.108EA2%RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson>, Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson> wrote: in article [Email Removed], Fred Doyle at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 11:00 AM: I loved this line from above. "I use the system as I wish, and if I choose to call it Free Speech, then that is what it is." In other words, "If I call my a$$ my elbow, then it is my elbow, and even if everyone else says I don't know my a$$ from my elbow, I must because I say so." Talk about a poor confused soul. I laughed a long time at that silliness. If I choose to say my postings are protected speech, and I have broken no law, then I am correct --- and there is nothing you can do about it. Supernews didn't think so and didn't allow so, so what you have proven is that other people correctly call you nuts. |
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In real life, annoying people for years is often prosecuted as stalking. |
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You and Uni aren't just making annoying statements in the support of a high belief. You're deliberately making annoying statements for years on end... |
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disrupting other people's conversations. |
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I used to support people who were annoying on line, but there comes a time when the good conversations between people who respect each other, even with a few ugly words (and Robert and I have exchanged some in the past) is worth more collectively than one or two people's right to be ugly. |
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And I don't believe in free speech. |
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Nyah nyah nyah!!!!! HA HA HA!!!! You need to have one so you can wait on your wife hand and foot during this delicate period in her life. :-) --Carol Will Sansbury <[Email Removed]> wrote in message news:A82P4.128968$[Email Removed]... Huh... funny story about that post... When I was writing it, my nosey 15 year old brother-in-law was in the room. He thought I was writing about my wife. So now we're having to explain to the whole dang extended family that no, we're not having a baby. whs http://mentalsoup.net "sistercarol" <[Email Removed]> wrote in message news:oHWO4.40675$[Email Removed]... I HEARD that! --Carol Will Sansbury <[Email Removed]> wrote in message news:vTIO4.125600$[Email Removed]... "Ariel Gross" <[Email Removed]> wrote in message news:[Email Removed]... Did I hit a nerve or something **PsssT! Ariel! she's pregnant... anything hits a nerve! whs http://mentalsoup.net |
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sicking Brandon on me, for the x-teenth time: |
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Will Sansbury: So just thought I'd let you know: it's happened. Sarah's 8mos pregnant as we speak. |
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http://sansburys.blogs.com/bean/ |
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in article [Email Removed], Rebecca Ore at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 12:19 PM: In real life, annoying people for years is often prosecuted as stalking. Newsgroups allow for filtering of "annoying" people. You can't become annoyed unless you allow it to happen. |
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None of which is against the law. So get over it. |
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disrupting other people's conversations. Not possible in a newsgroup. You are being overly dramatic. I used to support people who were annoying on line, but there comes a time when the good conversations between people who respect each other, even with a few ugly words (and Robert and I have exchanged some in the past) is worth more collectively than one or two people's right to be ugly. Your choices of where the "line" is drawn is irrelevant. And I don't believe in free speech. What you choose to believe is up to you. It is not my concern. |
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Supernews has shown themselves to not be a valid judge. They lie, they use forged data to attempt to justify their acts, they make up rules and then add them later to the TOS. |
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So I judge them to be irrelevant. Just like you. |
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In article <BCEE0765.108FB4%RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson>, Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson> wrote: in article [Email Removed], Rebecca Ore at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 12:19 PM: In real life, annoying people for years is often prosecuted as stalking. Newsgroups allow for filtering of "annoying" people. You can't become annoyed unless you allow it to happen. I especially like Supernews' filtering of annoying people, and will probably become a subscriber soon. |
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None of which is against the law. So get over it. Filtering you or TOSing you... |
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or dropping posts from Astraweb for not curbing you isn't against the law, either. |
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disrupting other people's conversations. Not possible in a newsgroup. You are being overly dramatic. |
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jbc wrote Free Speech as to be exercised or it gets flabby. If people can't write as they really think and feel then Free Speech is not worth much, now is it. Which is not what the person you are defending... I am writing my opinion. If you see it as defending "Uni", you are in error. I am defending my right to write my opinions as I wish, wherever I wish. |
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is doing. What "Uni" chooses to do is not my concern. He could indeed write 'I disagree' or 'I don't like you' or 'I want you to like me'. Or whatever he really thinks and feels, as you put it. Instead he twists their literal words and will never be open to a straight discussion. That is not my problem, nor responsibility. |
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That is not free speech and has nothing whatsoever to do with the principle thereof. Your opinion is noted, but it has little to do with what "Uni" is allowed to do. |
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jbc wrote: Supernews is showing itself to be not that much better than Uni by joining in too many tiffs, and by voicing (personal) opinions. At most. Supernews throws it's weight around in the newsgroups way too much for my taste. They flaunt their ability to censor people at their own whim, and then rewrite their TOS later after they have done the censoring. I have questioned them about that in the past and drew the conclusion that personally I would not want them as my news provider because to my taste they discuss their users too much (publicly) with other users. That is just one of their flaws. The difference with Uni is that they have the 'power' of banning and denying access to their server. And for reasons that are not in the TOS but only added later. Post-editing can be done in several ways. Uni's ways often seem fun or even harmless but sometimes they are aimed at defamation and they aren't always based on truth. Take it to the newsgroup and rebut his untruths. Supernews in my view is free to use the means it has to counteract his less harmless attempts to defame people. They are not lawyers. They are not a court system. They should keep their noses out of this area because they are not qualified to decide such things. |
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If you feel that Uni and defamed you, then take it to court. Defending oneself is part of 'free speech' too ... That is why you take it to the newsgroup and defend yourself. |
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in article [Email Removed], Rebecca Ore at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 1:53 PM: In article <BCEE0765.108FB4%RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson>, Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson> wrote: in article [Email Removed], Rebecca Ore at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 12:19 PM: In real life, annoying people for years is often prosecuted as stalking. Newsgroups allow for filtering of "annoying" people. You can't become annoyed unless you allow it to happen. I especially like Supernews' filtering of annoying people, and will probably become a subscriber soon. Too bad it does not work in total. It just forces them to move to other news hosts. So your need for someone to filter for you, is not very well serviced, now is it. Time for you to whine to someone with more power. hahahahaha. |
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Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson> wrote jbc wrote Free Speech as to be exercised or it gets flabby. If people can't write as they really think and feel then Free Speech is not worth much, now is it. Which is not what the person you are defending... I am writing my opinion. If you see it as defending "Uni", you are in error. I am defending my right to write my opinions as I wish, wherever I wish. Maybe I use the wrong word. Maybe it should be 'standing by' Uni. |
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If free speech is your main concern, it isn't coming through. |
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I was responding to your own words. It was you who wrote 'If people can't write as they really think and feel then Free Speech is not worth much, now is it.' |
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Supernews in my view is free to use the means it has to counteract his less harmless attempts to defame people. They are not lawyers. They are not a court system. They should keep their noses out of this area because they are not qualified to decide such things. They have the means... |
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In article <BCEE1A4F.109091%[Email Removed]>, Martin_S <[Email Removed]> wrote: in article [Email Removed], Rebecca Ore at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 1:53 PM: In article <BCEE0765.108FB4%RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson>, Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson> wrote: in article [Email Removed], Rebecca Ore at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 12:19 PM: In real life, annoying people for years is often prosecuted as stalking. Newsgroups allow for filtering of "annoying" people. You can't become annoyed unless you allow it to happen. I especially like Supernews' filtering of annoying people, and will probably become a subscriber soon. Too bad it does not work in total. It just forces them to move to other news hosts. So your need for someone to filter for you, is not very well serviced, now is it. Time for you to whine to someone with more power. hahahahaha. Or go to places ... |
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in article [Email Removed], Demetrius Zeluff at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 10:30 AM: Not surprising that bigots and censors flock together. Yep, that's what the problem is. Then don't join them. |
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:41:02 -0500, Demetrius Zeluff <[Email Removed]> transparently proposed: Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson> wrote in news:BCEDCB40.108C58%RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson: in article 40c877c3$0$93068$[Email Removed], Mike Horwath at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 8:01 AM: In alt.binaries.news-server-comparison Fred Doyle <[Email Removed]> wrote: : Mike Christy is being chastised by Supernews [snipper] Are you saying that Mike Christy is Uni? There are many goofballs that think that. They are wrong, but that does not stop them. Calling you both fuckheaded wankbadgers doesn't mean we[tinw] think you're the same person. It was determined by the Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler (FNVW) of news:alt.usenet.kooks for purposes of usenet k00kery that the Unitard and the Spammer ArtistMike (and all associated Socks, Frogs & Forgeries) are one. |
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This is defined as either one unit having 2 personalities or two units sharing the same brain. So for purposes of these and future discussions all references to one unit shall apply to the other. I do like the "fuckheaded wankbadgers" and promise to use it without reference to whom I stole it from. |
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in article [Email Removed], Demetrius Zeluff at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 10:41 AM: we think you're the same person. You and your invisible friends can think whatever you wish, but you are a goofball. |
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I caught them banning links to a free speech site. Was post rejected in a reply, just like Artist Mike's URL was. |
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I will "stand by" anyone that I think is being unjustly censored. Even if I don't like what that person writes, or what that person is "in to". |
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Uni <[Email Removed]> wrote in news:[Email Removed]: I caught them banning links to a free speech site. Was post rejected in a reply, just like Artist Mike's URL was. I bet this free speech site is the slimiest sleeziest pro spammer scummy site around. |
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Free Speech as to be exercised or it gets flabby. If people can't write as they really think and feel then Free Speech is not worth much, now is it. |
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Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson> wrote in news:BCEDE96E.108E10%RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson: in article [Email Removed], Demetrius Zeluff at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 10:30 AM: Not surprising that bigots and censors flock together. Yep, that's what the problem is. Then don't join them. Post edit noted, crying whine sent. |
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Roy Peterson <RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson> wrote in news:BCEDEFC3.108E76%RoyPeterson@RoyPeterson: in article [Email Removed], Demetrius Zeluff at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 10:41 AM: we think you're the same person. You and your invisible friends can think whatever you wish, but you are a goofball. Post edit noted Morph noted Abuse report sent. |
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He could indeed write 'I disagree' or 'I don't like you' or 'I want you to like me'. Or whatever he really thinks and feels, as you put it. Instead he twists their literal words and will never be open to a straight discussion. |
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That is not my problem, nor responsibility. |
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I was responding to your own words. It was you who wrote 'If people can't write as they really think and feel then Free Speech is not worth much, now is it.' |
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Yes, and I still think it is an accurate opinion. |
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jbc wrote Supernews in my view is free to use the means it has to counteract his less harmless attempts to defame people. They are not lawyers. They are not a court system. They should keep their noses out of this area because they are not qualified to decide such things. They have the means... |
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Police have the means to kill you, but that does not mean that they should do it. If you think "Uni" has committed a crime, take him to court. Asking a news provider to censor him because you don't like what he writes is not valid. |
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Expecting a private business to act as your daddy, that is as the police who will neutrally come to your aid when you say you need them, is not realistic. Expecting a private business to be as trustworthy and neutral as one would like the police or their daddy to be is laudable but not realistic either. |
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As I said, there are more parties involved in this power rampage to force certain 'rights and wrongs' down each other's throats, and I see the Supernews staff joining in as merely one of them. It does not reflect well on them. Joske |
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So, in all, there are three parties exerting their needs in different ways: you, Uni and Supernews. You want a newsprovider to be straight to others where you are not (as shown above with selective quoting and taking things out of context)... |
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Uni wants to post-edit and defamate people... |
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the provider joins in with power play. |
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There is not much anyone can add in the way of reasonable discourse when people are on rampages like that - hence my opinion Supernews too is free to act as it wishes in this particular situation. |
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:10:52 -0500, Demetrius Zeluff <[Email Removed]> got double secret probation because: Uni <[Email Removed]> wrote in news:[Email Removed]: I caught them banning links to a free speech site. Was post rejected in a reply, just like Artist Mike's URL was. I bet this free speech site is the slimiest sleeziest pro spammer scummy site around. Since you are responding to the 'Tard the site probably has to do with children. AM is the spammer, 'Tard is Pretty Little Girl Pictures. 'Ratz |
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Martin_S <[Email Removed]> wrote |
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Martin_S <[Email Removed]> wrote: |
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I will "stand by" anyone that I think is being unjustly censored. Even if I don't like what that person writes, or what that person is "in to". So will I. It seems we have something in common after all! |
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Martin_S <[Email Removed]> wrote news:BCEE23A8.1090E9%[Email Removed] |
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Context and logic: You wrote: If people can't write as they really think and feel then Free Speech is not worth much, now is it. I responded to that: He could indeed write 'I disagree' or 'I don't like you' or 'I want you to like me'. Or whatever he really thinks and feels, as you put it. Instead he twists their literal words and will never be open to a straight discussion. To which you replied: |
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That is not my problem, nor responsibility. So I repeated: I was responding to your own words. It was you who wrote 'If people can't write as they really think and feel then Free Speech is not worth much, now is it.' And now you state: |
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Yes, and I still think it is an accurate opinion. So, in all, there are three parties exerting their needs in different ways: you, Uni and Supernews. You want a newsprovider to be straight to others where you are not (as shown above with selective quoting and taking things out of context), Uni wants to post-edit and defamate people, the provider joins in with power play. There is not much anyone can add in the way of reasonable discourse when people are on rampages like that - hence my opinion Supernews too is free to act as it wishes in this particular situation. |
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jbc wrote - Martin_S <[Email Removed]> wrote Look at the headers - you are responding to the nymshifting forging fuckwitted spammer mikey. |
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Maybe he just likes pissing into the wind. |
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To which you replied: No I didn't |
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MartinS wrote - Maybe he just likes pissing into the wind. The turd changed his name to Wind ??? |
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I didn't say any of the above. |
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In real life, anyone who went to a non-public gathering and was as disruptive and malicious as Artist Mike and Uni wouldn't find their actions protected as free speech. Newsgroups are both public and private. They have qualities of both situations. Thus your confusion. They wouldn't find their actions protected as free speech in a public place, either. |
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One thing that *really* pisses me off is people who act like total assholes and then hide behind the banner of "free speech", claiming it somehow applies to them. They don't even understand what it means, and when they proceed to whine about "censorship", they don't understand that, either. |
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So, in all, there are three parties exerting their needs in different ways: you, Uni and Supernews. You want a newsprovider to be straight to others where you are not (as shown above with selective quoting and taking things out of context), Uni wants to post-edit and defamate people, the provider joins in with power play. |
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jbc <[Email Removed]> wrote: So, in all, there are three parties exerting their needs in different ways: you, Uni and Supernews. You want a newsprovider to be straight to others where you are not (as shown above with selective quoting and taking things out of context), Uni wants to post-edit and defamate people, the provider joins in with power play. There is no "power play". As should be obvious, we do not have the power to stop Uni from doing what he is doing. We do, however, have both the power and the right to decide that enough is enough when it comes to letting him do it from our system, because allowing him to continue reflects badly upon us. |
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MartinS wrote - Maybe he just likes pissing into the wind. The turd changed his name to Wind ??? |
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jbc <[Email Removed]> wrote: So, in all, there are three parties exerting their needs in different ways: you, Uni and Supernews. You want a newsprovider to be straight to others where you are not (as shown above with selective quoting and taking things out of context), Uni wants to post-edit and defamate people, the provider joins in with power play. There is no "power play". As should be obvious, we do not have the power to stop Uni from doing what he is doing. We do, however, have both the power and the right to decide that enough is enough when it comes to letting him do it from our system, because allowing him to continue reflects badly upon us. |
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"Jeremy Nixon - Supernews" <[Email Removed]> wrote in message news:[Email Removed] jbc <[Email Removed]> wrote: So, in all, there are three parties exerting their needs in different ways: you, Uni and Supernews. You want a newsprovider to be straight to others where you are not (as shown above with selective quoting and taking things out of context), Uni wants to post-edit and defamate people, the provider joins in with power play. There is no "power play". As should be obvious, we do not have the power to stop Uni from doing what he is doing. We do, however, have both the power and the right to decide that enough is enough when it comes to letting him do it from our system, because allowing him to continue reflects badly upon us. Right. I could sign up today for access through Supernews for 3 bucks a month. The most SN could do to me is forbid me to post what they considered unacceptable from their system. SN doesn't seem very powerful to me. |
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:10:05 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski" <[Email Removed]> got double secret probation because: Right. I could sign up today for access through Supernews for 3 bucks a month. The most SN could do to me is forbid me to post what they considered unacceptable from their system. SN doesn't seem very powerful to me. Look into the spinning Supernews hypnodrive. You are getting sleepy, sleepy. You will purchase the $6.00 SN acount. Go Robert and do not troll again. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
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"Aratzio" <[Email Removed]> wrote in message news:[Email Removed] On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:10:05 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski" <[Email Removed]> got double secret probation because: Right. I could sign up today for access through Supernews for 3 bucks a month. The most SN could do to me is forbid me to post what they considered unacceptable from their system. SN doesn't seem very powerful to me. Look into the spinning Supernews hypnodrive. You are getting sleepy, sleepy. You will purchase the $6.00 SN acount. Go Robert and do not troll again. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Why would I pay $6 for what I could get for $3? As I never had any contact with the abuse folks at SN, I can't imagine they'd care. |
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in article 40c8fe08$0$45883$[Email Removed], MartinS at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 5:37 PM: To which you replied: No I didn't You are not the only Martin S. in the world. |
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in article 40c8fe08$0$45883$[Email Removed], MartinS at [Email Removed] wrote on 06/10/2004 5:37 PM: I didn't say any of the above. No one wrote that you did "say" anything... you really don't know how Usenet works, do you. Plus you are not the only Martin S. in the world. Not everyone is writing to you when they write to a "Martin S.". |
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:32:59 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski" <[Email Removed]> got double secret probation because: "Aratzio" <[Email Removed]> wrote in message news:[Email Removed] On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:10:05 -0400, "rfgdxm/Robert F. Golaszewski" <[Email Removed]> got double secret probation because: Right. I could sign up today for access through Supernews for 3 bucks a month. The most SN could do to me is forbid me to post what they considered unacceptable from their system. SN doesn't seem very powerful to me. Look into the spinning Supernews hypnodrive. You are getting sleepy, sleepy. You will purchase the $6.00 SN acount. Go Robert and do not troll again. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Why would I pay $6 for what I could get for $3? As I never had any contact with the abuse folks at SN, I can't imagine they'd care. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH As that flys right over the cough syrup kings head. |