Delusions too like faith do not need proof. So what's your point.
I should have faith? Faith about what? And why should I have faith in
the first place? For what purpose should I have faith in something?
Your asking us to give up our capacity to reason and just accept things
on the basis of some mysterious feeling. So we should
disregard all decisions we make on the basis of logical or empirical reasons
and simply believe and trust something to be the case on the basis of
what someone else says or how we feel. How long do you think we would
survive doing that?

So in that case why don't you believe in the Devil?
Since we can't explain or prove the Devil either.

Not at all, because I would never presume to deny fundies employment or
other basic societal considerations based on their religious views. If
they can do their job and keep their religion to themselves, not a
problem. Fundies problem is they can't just shut the fuck up about their
religion, they have to "witness."

But if they come to my door at 730 in the morning, it doesn't mean I
have to let them in.

The point is that you're welcome to believe anything you like but if you
want to pass laws and tell me and my kids what they can and can't learn
in a public school, then you have to back it up with more than "because
god says so".

No.

And then you guys inflict the rules, regulations and strictures of those
unseen and and unproved "things" on the rest of us and when we ask why,
you make some vague reference to faith in your invisible sky-tyrant.

Sorry, not good enough. Believe what you want but the moment a believer
expects me to fall in line, they better bring the proof first.

Wow, you really have all the creationist metaphors memorized, don't ya?

Anyway, the answer to your "who created the universe" question is
obvious: Bastet... and she's mighty pissed off at you.

Bastet? That's my cat.

Well if you worship your cat, you're on the level of the ancient
Egyptians, who were a damn sight smarter than modern-day Xians, who are
mostly as dumb as a box of rocks.

Produce evidence that there is a "God". Then you can go on to produce some
of it's words.

How do you know that your deity "Devil" is not the one you should be
worshiping?

Wow. Not only do you not know any history, you don't even know the
history of your own faith. Amazing.

>

Faith denies proof.

How can a sky fall?

It's not our fault you're too lazy to shake it long enough.

Their Mullah who has a personal connection to their invisible sky fairy
told them to so that they can get to heaven and get their virgin collection.

As a side note, why virgins? Wouldn't eternity with one dirty girl
from Fresno be more fun than all the virgins in the afterlife?

Their Priest who has a personal connection to their invisible sky fairy
told them to so that they can get to heaven and get their Harm and wings.

Again, wouldn't the dirty girl from Fresno be a lot more fun?

Because they can't get laid publicly, and besides according to TZ some
of those alter boys are just ASKING for it...

Please, do you have to discuss your gods failures?

And I met you when? Tell me, dates and places of when I personally did
you grievance.

--
Ben M.

That's one way of looking at it :)

Please elaborate on failures.

Cheers,
John

But you'd "do your best to be as offensive as possible" if they were
under your employment? Do you really think that's any better?

--
Ben M.

It's called the "general you". Familiarize yourself with the concept.

Only fools make generalisations based on race, colour or creed.

--
Ben M.

Don't be an ass, you ass.

If they were under my employment (I am not an employer) they'd talk
about work. I do my best to offend fundies ON USENET, you FUCKING MORON!

I'm only just quoting you. To see yourself from somebody else's
perspective is often very grounding.

--
Ben M.

You keep telling yourself while talking to you invisible friend.

I say again, religion is the bane of human existence.

I would have thought a system of principles and beliefs that a group
of people subscribe to (i.e. a creed) would allow you to generalise
about them a little bit.

A general statement is a very different thing to a generalised
statement. The first applies to every case of a category, the second
applies specific cases to every case of a category.

Where humans are concerned such generalised statements are never
correct, simply because each person in a group is unique except for
whatever critera makes up that group.

--
Ben M.

There's a cannon that is made of books from 2000 years ago? Does it
shoot paper cannonballs?

There were actual "boogie men". The term comes from the spice trades
in what is now Indonesia. The name comes from the Bugis (pronounced
"boo" "geese") traders of Sulawesi, Indonesia. Very harsh pirates /
traders that made a significant impact in the dangerous nature of the
indonesian spice trades. There were many not-so-friendly encounters
with these traders during the regions Dutch occupation and spice trades
with the British, hence the passed down of lore of the "bugis man".

- Dustin

--
--

Macdonald Design, Inc.
ph:
Web: www.macdonalddesign.com

"Creative Solutions for Today's Evolving Marketplace"

Do they live in your closet or under your bed? Do they grab your feet as
you step into bed at night?

hahahaha.

Thus we have a story that may have a seed of truth but has been corrupted
over time until the story is totally false and a fantasy.

Does your "bugis man" live under your bed still?

":^)

That's an unsupported assertion.

You try and educate some people just a little, and look what happens....

Very sad.

--
--

Macdonald Design, Inc.
ph:
Web: www.macdonalddesign.com

"Creative Solutions for Today's Evolving Marketplace"

geeeeesh.

It's not? ;-)

--
--

Macdonald Design, Inc.
ph:
Web: www.macdonalddesign.com

"Creative Solutions for Today's Evolving Marketplace"

You should have seen Brian when he found out that he does not control what
is posted in a newsgroup. He got all pissy and started spinning.

What a mess.

thanks for the info.
...er wait... or were you just voicing an opinion?

You were reminded of your limitations and you did not like it. Move on.

Good job there god...

It's the only way to look at it. If mere evidence would change a
believers mind, they never REALLY believed in the first place.

I disagree. Faith does not REQUIRE proof, but can exist even if there IS
proof (in general terms).

I am sure anyone can say such, only in Christ Jesus; he rose from the
dead, and was seen by up to 500 people at one time. Sent days after
his resurrection to give all that would not believe time to see and
know God did raise him up from the dead. So a few days later Peter was
able to baptized 3,000 people. Then only the Greek Orthodox church can
say they still have the buildings and place where Jesus walked and
preached, which even the Greeks and Roman gods could never say or any
other religion, then I don't see why they would want to, as it would
show they lied and not to be trusted. Today about two Billion people
say they are Christian.

As for religions goes they are real, only false and not of the Creator
God, that made mankind in the beginning. Lots of gods, and religions,
only one true God and Saviour and that is Jesus the Christ the Saviour
to all that accept His payment for sin, his blood on the cross, he gave
his life so others may live eternal, then rose from the dead to prove
he had the power to back up His promise.

Raymond
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org

Too bad I wasn't one of them. Who told you 500 people saw him? The tooth
fairy? What did Santa and the easter Bunnny have to say about that? Did
the Super-Friends tell you?

Can't anyone see how ridiculous you look when you talk about your faith
in your invisible friend in the sky?

Whiskey Man's my friend he's with me nearly all the time
He always joins me when I drink and we get on just fine
No one else has ever seen him
I'm the only one
Seemingly I must be mad
Insanity is fun...if that's the way it's done
(with thanks to John Entwistle)

It's a horrifying thing to realize that two-thirds of the planet's
population are so stupid and weak, that they need to believe in an
invisible fairy in the sky.

Furthermore, it's an equally horrifying thing that the leaders of this
mass insanity are mostly pedophiles.

its unfortunate that some have so little understanding of how things
actually are as opposed to media hype and a self inflating ego that
makes one unreceptive ......can it be you are missing something?

He is a good thing, and I Will be able to read.

Keep on fooling yourself that you are a fart.

--
Lady Chatterly

"Does anyone on this group know who this Lady Chatterly' is? Either
way, I hope for her sake that she finds something more meaningful to
do with her life than degrading people's posts on the usenet. I'm
sure such a past time can hardly be fulfilling. Maybe she should buy
a dog :D." -- hvatum

I haven't seen anything to miss.

Religion is the bane of human existence. It's the one form of slavery
that has not been outlawed in the US.
--
Steve Young better than Joe Montana?
Don't make me laugh